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section loading/transition screens...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Astara_, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. Astara_

    Astara_ Cricket Member

    I'm told that there's a pause or wait on each of the transition screens to allow you to read the message and they can be disabled?

    Is there an addon for that?

    I regularly end up one of the last people into a next-scene after one
    of those pauses.

    FWIW, I have a 3.2GHz-8-core, processor, w/96G memory, GTX 1080, and SSD, so can't see any reason it should be slowed down.


  2. Fijikku Kasai

    Fijikku Kasai Cricket Donator Member

    Two things
    One that addon is meant for those with already fucking fast loading
    Two if you're loading last anyways it's not gonna help
  3. Astara_

    Astara_ Cricket Member


    Why wouldn't it help?

    If I'm hitting a delay to make it wait, wouldn't that be slowing it down?

    If someone was were loading fast and before everyone else, i'd almost believe
    they'd had it installed.
  4. cupid

    cupid Hongmoon Staff Member Moderator Member

    As far as I could observe, all cutscenes are mandatory.

    Everything loads only and only after the cutscene ends.
    Removing the cutscene file results in an huge untextured plane covering your screen.
  5. Fijikku Kasai

    Fijikku Kasai Cricket Donator Member

    Not talking about Cutscenes, Cupid.
  6. cupid

    cupid Hongmoon Staff Member Moderator Member

    Oh then I'm confused :/
  7. Fijikku Kasai

    Fijikku Kasai Cricket Donator Member

    Basically, there is a forced wait on a loading screen so you can read the tool tip.
    So if you load stupidly fast you hit a small wall.
    Removing that time lets you load just a tiny bit faster, hence why if you're load slow already.
    It's not gonna help period.
  8. Astara_

    Astara_ Cricket Member

    I'm one of those who will try many things even if its unlikely to work, sometimes just to see what the effect is.
    I think my most likely problem (?) is not a fast enough CPU. It's a Xeon 6134 w/rated speed of 3.2GHz w/24.75MB of cache, w/8 cores (16 virtual cores in SMT/threaded mode).
    Don't think it is memory (96GB) or disk (RAID10 using 4 Samsung Pro (2 in parallel, 2 as copies).
    And I guess most are of opinion that the graphics card doesn't matter that much because the game doesn't really use it (graphics card, GTX1080, is rarely, if ever eve up to 50% usage).
    My best guesses on improvement w/current HW would be if game made better use of free memory to keep already-uncompressed areas in cache, and secondly -- not to compress it in the 1st place! Oh well. Prolly not likely to happen.

    Anyway, just grasping at straws, mostly, since HW isn't likely to change that much. Thanks, and *sigh*.

  9. cupid

    cupid Hongmoon Staff Member Moderator Member


    Starting in the note you've finished.

    Removing 100ms won't help you.

    Disable "No Texture Streaming".
    I know what is RAID 10, but you may very well have a SATA2 motherboard, so...

    And you are using "Samsung Pro"...
    If I remember, the old ones weren't that great.

    In short: forget it, it won't help. Your issue is elsewhere.
  10. Astara_

    Astara_ Cricket Member

    100ms? Really? That's howlong they put in so people could read the
    text? Sorta doubt it, probably closer to 5s.
    Texture streaming already off.
    I forget the exact models but they were Samsung EVO's, new
    this year, supposedly ~500MB/s RW ea.
    The RAID is off of an LSI(Avago) HW raid card
    capable of using PCI-based SSD's.

    The Xeon 6134 won't run on an older motherboard.
    It is a Dual CPU MB, w/no cpu in 2nd slot at this
    time (future expansion).

    The delay supposedly was put there to make sure people had
    time to read the text on the images (the images are set
    to off in my setup). Actually, the speed to load another
    segment is variable -- which is puzzling, going from near
    0 seconds as I walk through a circle-sigil to as long
    as 20+ w/me ending up being the last person there.
    It maybe that a pause put there to allow people to read text
    won't take up much time, but 100ms won't be enough for
    anyone to read anything.
  11. cupid

    cupid Hongmoon Staff Member Moderator Member

    Whatever it is, you're barking to the wrong tree.

    Have you though that, maybe, your controller is a POS that doesn't support TRIM and you're just screwing up the SSDs?
    RAID has those issues.

    Have you tried to do speed benchmarks?
    To check the speed?

    And you still didn't said anything about your motherboard.
  12. Astara_

    Astara_ Cricket Member

    1) Trim isn't needed for for most enterprise SSD's. This has been true for the past 2-3 years.
    2) Most RAID cards don't support TRIM.
    3) Yes, I did say something about my mobo. It is designed
    for use with 2 Xeon 6134's. Very few mobo's can support the lastest
    CPU's, but FWIW, it's an Intel workstation mobo.
    score       area       percentile
    16026.8   cpu           98th
    1000.6   2d           94th
    5493.5   3d           78th
    2911.2   mem           94th
    38565.6   disk       99th
    6623.7   total       99th
  13. cupid

    cupid Hongmoon Staff Member Moderator Member

    2. Read point 1
    3. That's a nice motherboard!
    Since we're going in circles and you won't stop killing your SSDs, and you will go around on how SSDs don't need TRIM, I end here my "conversation" with you.

    Please, acquire proper raid handling procedures (like, software raid or a raid controller that supports TRIM) and then we "talk" in here.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 5:02 AM
  14. Astara_

    Astara_ Cricket Member

    I have looked at this issue multiple times. As far back as
    5 years ago, some brands of SSD's (Samsung) said that their
    enterprise SSD's did not appreciably lose R/W speed -- and that they
    designed them for Enterprise use where HW raid was common to not lose
    performance in the absence of TRIM.

    If you have any sources for HW raid controllers that support
    TRIM, I'd be surprised. Broadcom/Avego/LSI says that none of their
    RAID cards support TRIM.

    Please read these articles... I do have sources and references to back
    my assertions -- and don't rely on oversized red-bold fonts to make
    my point.

    1) https://serverfault.com/questions/776564/what-is-the-current-state-2016-of-ssds-in-raid

    2) https://www.seagate.com/tech-insights/ssd-over-provisioning-benefits-master-ti/

    3) https://www.spinics.net/lists/raid/msg40916.html

    In all of the cases, they refer to:
    1) enterprise disks start with considerably more over-provisioning than consumer grade drives.
    2) to maintain performance, it is best not to fill disks more than about 75%. That's fine, since most file systems start to degrade in performance if you fill and keep them more full than that.
    3) With sufficient free space, pre-erased sections can be allocated for new use on demand with little decrease in performance. Background self-maintenance is usually sufficient if the disks are idle a fair portion of the time.

    You seem to be asserting that you know more than manufacturers, OS writers and other experts. Please site your sources & references.

    Second. Trim is useful in maintaining write speed. The main activity
    BnS is doing is *reading* and decompressing. TRIM has little to do
    with BnS's performance.
  15. cupid

    cupid Hongmoon Staff Member Moderator Member

    BnS does write and read.
    Where do you think that logs go?

    Link 1 is useful, link 2 is only talking about overprovisioning and link 3 is for linux.

    No, I don't.

    Lets assume I'm totally and completelly wrong, and start with the basic.

    Basic questions:
    1. Where is the game stored?
    2. How long does the game take to load into, say, into Cold Storage?
    3. How long does it take to load into mushin's tower?
    4. How much cpu % does the game use?
    5. How much *free* ram do you have, when in mushin's tower, in a crowded channel?
    6. Where is your pagination file?
    7. Do you have hybernation enabled?
    8. Do you have prefetch and superfetch enabled?
    9. How much read/write is happening when the game is loading? (you can check this in the resource monitor)
    10. What else do you have open while the game runs?
    11. When was the last time you restarted your PC from a cold boot?
  16. Astara_

    Astara_ Cricket Member

    BnS does very little writing to disk. What logs are you referring to?
    Unless you turn on debugging, there is no logging.

    The characters are are saved on the remote server.
    Settings are usually local.

    More than 99% of BnS's I/O is reading.

    1. ?? It's path? the default. Only have 1
    local, mounted partition. (C:\) on an SSD.
    2. From where? Going through the gate for the 1st time
    3. from where?
    4. Varies, 50-100% of 1 cpu
    5. 15146 MB in use out of 82666MB (62430MB free)
    6. fixed size near beginning of disk -- unused. (system doesn't
    usually swap).
    7. No hybernation.
    8. don't think prefetch or superfetch are useful or enabled.
    9. it's not when game is loading that I have a problem.
    I'm talking about loading a new area.
    Loading CS, doesn't usually stress I/O...usually sections
    within a dungeon are where I notice more probs....though
    going from completely different areas to others can take longer
    as well...but not usually a problem....
    It's in a dugeon run...after finishing a Boss, and going
    through a section circle into where next boss is.
    10. Varies...Sometimes a movie, & browser, sometimes
    nothing. It doesn't change based on background programs
    since things like movies load off of network server
    over a 10Gb link. Since it has 8 cpus and 2.666GHz
    memory, more than one thing can run at a time, but
    pauses between sections are not consistent and don't
    vary based on background load.
    11. also varies, but most recently ~2 days (UPS needs
    new battery and power went out). Reboots are more frequent
    due to wellbia's XIGNCODE malware complaining about
  17. cupid

    cupid Hongmoon Staff Member Moderator Member

    Answering to point 9:

    I've noticed that loading a new area is influenced by ping.

    I load faster on EU than NA, with less unloaded areas in EU.
    But honestly, the load is usually 1-2 seconds, so, not a huge difference.

    When NA is really bad, it can take up to 5 seconds there.
    On Desolate Tomb, large sections don't load, sometimes.

    But honestly, that has nothing to do with this:
    Seems like you are, afterall, barking at the wrong tree.

    Also, try a file repair and run without mods.
    If one of the mods is causing issues, you will know it.
  18. Astara_

    Astara_ Cricket Member

    As are many things in BnS.

    But honestly,_that has nothing to do with this:

    "extra 3-5 seconds wait time when loading a new area, on top of
    load and/or ping times, to allow a few extra seconds to read hint
    text on the screen"

    How do you figure? say load time is .2 seconds, normal
    ping is .2 seconds, but say a bad ping takes 2 seconds and
    the read-text delay is 3-5 seconds.

    So for fast loaders, wait time would be 3.4 - 5.4 secs, with
    slow pingers waiting 5.2 - 7.2 seconds.

    If the 3-5 seconds of read delay was removed, that would drop total
    wait time to 2.2 seconds. That could allow a slow pinger to catch
    have a shorter, overall, wait time.

    So how do you see removing the text-delay as not being related
    to shortening the overall delay time?

    What I don't get is why you are arguing against someone trying
    out such a patch. Why would you care so much that you would spend
    this amount of time arguing against letting someone even trying
    the wait-removal option? If it works, great!, If not, I'd have
    to look elsewhere.
  19. cupid

    cupid Hongmoon Staff Member Moderator Member

    You're mixing things....

    You are mixing "load screens", "cut scenes", "load screens tips", "multiple areas" and "portals".

    Please, stop making a salad.

    I will write a full list for you, you take whatever you need:
    • When you get inside a dungeon/area, the loadscreen has some time to show the tips.
      Won't make much of a difference, since you will have to wait for others.
      Unless you're a big whale and can solo everything.
      Result: useless in F8, don't bother

    • When you go from a boss to another one, there aren't loadscreens (unless you have high ping/slow storage).
      If you have loadscreens there, investigate your ping/storage.
      Result: removing tips won't do anything at all
    Hope I de-complicated the tangled mess.

    If this is true:
    That means it isn't the "pause", but something else.
    As I said before, ping and storage.

    Also, the "pause" won't do this:
    Again: ping and storage.

    Conclusion: don't bother with investing time into removing the pause to read the tips, since your problem is elsewhere.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 10:31 AM
  20. Astara_

    Astara_ Cricket Member

    You are adding things that I never said. I never used the term
    'cut scenes', neither did I ever use the term "tips". You are making things
    up and claiming I said them to try to obfuscate the issue.

    But your list has your created terms and near duplicates.

    When I go from one area where I fought a boss, to the next area, *usually*, I see the transparent circular portals that I just step through. HOWEVER, on ***occasion***, i.e. not usually, (it may be only certain dungeons, not sure), as I step through the tranparent circular portal, instead of seeing the other side, I see what looks like a transition screen or black if I have those load-screens disabled.

    When the progress bar reaches the other side, there is an additional 3-5 second pause, then I see rest of party again with them waiting at next boss.

    So...when I see the progress bar halt and wait for 3-5 seconds, cpu wil
    drop and there is little or no I/O. Seems like that is a timed wait.

    Except that they will already be at next boss waiting for me. If I could skip
    that extra 3-5 second pause, I might get their near the same time or a bit
    less late.

    Not useless: I might not enter quite as far behind everyone else, but
    I do raids as well.

    I have them turned off, so I only see black screen. But you had
    me bench things -- my I/O is in 99th percentile usually well over
    100MB/s. My pings are usually ~ 120-130ms, of which, 50ms is network delay.

    So as I said in my previous post -- even if I have a bad ping on way to
    new section where next boss is, then cutting 3-5 seconds off the
    wait time at end might have me entering about the same time as everyone

    Except remove an 3-5 seconds -- when I see the progress bar, the CPU and the IO go idle for a few seconds. You already had me bench my IO and my ping doesn't jump around that much.

    You added several terms of your own. However, you didn't answer this:

    That is your conclusion. Not mine. I have enough of a background in software engineering and computer science to know that trying it out is "cheap" and takes far less time that it has taken to discuss it here.